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The Dark Materials Trilogy - Book 1 (!!!!SPOILERS!!!!)(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)
Posted by: Kingtut
WARNING - This thread may contain possible spoilers. Do not read it, if you don't want to know details of the Dark Materials Trilogy by Philip Pullman.
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Nancy and I have both read the first novel in the trilogy (Northern Lights or The Golden Compass, as it's titled in the US) Please feel free to join in the discussion.
a few points -
1) Having never read the Harry Potter books, I would be interested in people's comparison with the two series.
2) I love the fact that everyone in the world has DÆmons. The way that Pullman just talks about them as they are in the novel, without any explanation or background is good IMO. It doesn't take the reader too long to understand what DÆmons are and information about them is drip-fed throughout the novels. I feel they are easier to identify with because they are presented to the reader as fact, right from the word go. I came to the conclusion that DÆmons were external, visible souls.
3) I thought the character of Iorek Byrnison the armoured Bear was great, although I must have missed the desription of it being a polar bear. I didn't imagine him being white until I saw it on the cover of a book 
4) Science, politics and religion are all interwoven throughout. The science parts especially were well constructed and elements are all interlinked and explained in such a way as to make the fantasy believable.
I'd be interested in any comments about this first book. All in all, I would highly recommend this trilogy. They were the most enjoyable books I'd read in a long while, and the ones that renewed my reading frenzy, after a too-long absence 
Posted by: Astrid
Well I have read both, Harry Potter and the first book of The Dark Materials Triology. While I found Harry Potter to be really enjoyable I have to say I just love this serious of books. It seems more grown up. It's really hard to explain, Lyra seems to be a very mature child who still has kept her inner child you know? Harry Potter just wasn't a child, from the very beginning of the books. Either way, I love both series.
I didn't realise that Iorek was a polar bear either As for the Daemons, I think that's a fantastic idea. I love Pantalaimon 
I'm at the beginning of book 2 now and enjoying it very much, I can only recommend it to people who like to escape into another world.
Posted by: BattleAxe Nancy
- In comparison to Harry Potter, I think they are both distinct works that in don't compare well. HDM is much more advanced reading. I tend to compare it to Tolkien in that respect. There is one main difference to me though: the daydream. Wilth HP, its easy to spend time away from the book daydreaming about being a student at Hogwarts (anyone you want to create) and roam the halls, cast spells, etc. The HP world parallels this world very closely and the spells and life is very practical and imaginable. There are endless daydreams to explore. I find with HDM, that I may think of what has happened, or re-enact something in my head, but it doesn't conjure the same limitless imagination. HP is a world that is much like our own, only with practical magic.
- I really like reading authors who write well. I highly doubt I could have handled this book at age 13
I used to be a horrible reader (due to lack of...). I love having to go to the dictionary (since I do like knowing true meanings). And I love finding out things like the fact Alethiology doesn't exist in the current dictionary, but does exist in my old KIng's English Dictionary and means "that part of logic which treats of truth and error." So it impresses me that he took from that and created alethiometer. 
- I wasn't sure if Iorek was meant to be a polar bear or just another type of light coloured bear. I thought his fur was described as golden??
- I was impressed with the way he tied in science, religion and philosophy too. I especially enjoyed his use of quantum physics in the coin toss example. I had just finished reading another book on quantum physics (
) and knew what he was saying is true.
- Okay, I need the Adam and Eve thing further explained... I know the story, I just didn't get the whole relation to Original Sin. She bit the apple, they covered up, henceforth born original sin.
I understand that Dust is original sin to Lord Asreil but I dont' quite understand the tie in with Adam and Eve. I kinda took from it all that Dust is attracted to adults and makes them sin (ie do stupid or wrongful things). Did dust make Eve eat the apple? bah... I just need more info here....
- The only part that I thought went too fast was Bolvangar. Lyra went in, and overnight the place was on fire. I felt as though it was too short.
- I enjoyed the concept of the daemons. It was an interesting concept.
- I was surprised by the level of emotion. The author has a no holds barred approach when it comes to dealing with kids. Watching Tony die without his daemon, seeing all the daemons in the cages and unable to fly very well, watching Roger be left there, etc. A child and an adult have died in Harry Potter, but neither situation evoked the same emotional response. Both were done more subtly. I like the way Pullman doesn't try to fluff the situation but leaves the hardcore emotional stuff to be felt. (The bear fight was particularly disturbing
, but that's cuz its animals
- the author is a master of foreshadow. The alethiometer helps alot with this. But also the fact that people around Lyra knows she's supposed to do great things, but don't know the whole story.
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That's all I can think of for now. I love the books. I'm about 50 pagesin to the second one.
Thanks Tut for the recommendation 
Posted by: fallen
The books change a bit after The Northen Lights. I liked all of them very much. Infact they are my favorite books. I bought the story on tapes unabridged for all of them so i can listen to them while going to sleep. I like that because it gives me more complex dreams.
The original sin part BattleAxe was that it was the first sin against God. A sin is like a crime against God. And God set out the rule to Adam and Eve that the may eat any of the fruits off of the any tree in the Garden Of Eden apart from the fruit of the one tree.
I agree with you about Philip Pullman's approach to the horrors in the book.
Posted by: Kingtut
He continues to reveal more information and background as the books progress. I'll be reading the final book shortly - it's in the queue 
Posted by: BattleAxe Nancy
Did the European editions have the drawings?!? Mine didn't 
But here they are online. Check the links at the bottom
http://www.philip-pullman.com/pages...x.asp?PageID=36
Looks like its going to be on stage too!
Posted by: BattleAxe Nancy

quote: Will there be another book about Lyra and Will?
There is already another book about Lyra. It's called Lyra's Oxford, and it will come out at the end of 2003. It's a short story set about two years after the end of The Amber Spyglass, and it contains some hints about The Book of Dust, which will follow ... in due course.
Posted by: Kingtut
I thought they would make good films. I knew about the existence of 'Lyra's Oxford' but hadn't heard anything about the Book of Dust 
Posted by: xoshade
Has anyone read the related works?
The Science of Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" by John Gribbin, Mary Gribbin, Philip Pullman.
Darkness Visible: Inside the World of Philip Pullman by Nicholas Tucker.
Art of Darkness: His Dark Materials. Staging the Philip Pullman Trilogy by Robert Butler.
Posted by: BattleAxe Nancy
I've only heard of one of those xo. Not sure if I"m into reading other people's few of his work. Its like reading the Science behind Harry Potter. It could be interesting though.
One thing that struck me when reading the reviews in the inside cover of the books was one critic's comment of Pullman's intentional recreation of Paradise Lost. I've never read that book - hear its a tough read - but now i'm curious what the connection is. Pullman mentions that book on his site somewhere too.
Posted by: fallen
Philip Pullman uses many quotes from some of John Miltons works, such as Paradise Lost.
quote: Originally posted by Kingtut
I thought they would make good films. I knew about the existence of 'Lyra's Oxford' but hadn't heard anything about the Book of Dust
They are in the process of choosing scripts for the film I believe.
Posted by: BattleAxe Nancy
Uhoh.... now I have to reprogram my head....
Cittagazze: Chee-tah-gazzay
dæmon: dee-mon
Iorek: Yo-rek
Iofur: Yo-fur
Kirjava: Kir-yah-vah
Lyra: Lie-ra
Serafina Pekkala: Ser-a-fee-nah Peck-al-ah
Stelmaria: Stell-meri-ah
Xaphania: Zaph-ar-nee-ah
I like Leee-ra better although 'lie' makes character sense.
and Iorek I pronounced E-or-ek 
and Daemon... well ae in Latin is actually pronouced as a long I. But that would sound funny so I pronounced it d-A-mon. I didn't think it should sound the same as demon.
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